Archbishop seeking Armenian PM’s ouster over concessions to Turkey, Azerbaijan

YEREVAN, Armenia — Two months ago, thousands of Armenians took to the streets of Yerevan to join in anti-government demonstrations led by a most unlikely figure, an archbishop who channeled their fury at what seemed like the endless concessions being made to their country’s longtime foe, Azerbaijan, by their democratically elected prime minister, Nikol Pashinyan.
Bagrat Galstanyan, 53, has roots in neighboring Iran, which is home to a thriving population of Christian Armenians. But he also spent many years in Canada, where he served as the primate of the local diocese of the Armenian Apostolic Church.
The doe-eyed archbishop, whose rallying cry is “Armenian, Armenia, Homeland, God,” seemed on the cusp of posing the biggest threat to the government since it rose to power in the wake of the 2018 Velvet Revolution that was led by Pashinyan. In an exclusive interview with Al-Monitor on the outskirts of Yerevan, Galstanyan blasted Pashinyan for capitulating to Azerbaijan and lying to the Armenian people as to his true plans.
Repeating his demands that Pashinyan step down, Galstanyan said he would lead a transitional government that would unite and reconcile a deeply divided nation and prosecute a “dignified” peace with Baku. His battle, he said, was of a “moral” character, one of “good” against “evil.”
Since the Nov. 9, 2020, cease-fire brokered by the Kremlin in the wake of Azerbaijan’s resounding victory over Armenia for control over Nagorno-Karabakh, Pashinyan has boldly reversed decades of Armenian policy, acknowledging that the enclave, which was majority Armenian until its entire population was driven out by Baku, belongs to Azerbaijan. At the same time, he is seeking to establish diplomatic ties with his country’s historic enemy, Turkey, hoping that Ankara will reopen its land border that was sealed in 1993 to show solidarity with Azerbaijan in an earlier war over Nagorno-Karabakh that Armenia had won.
A majority of Armenians appeared to back his vision, voting him back into office in 2021 in the hopes that he could prevent further conflict, even as critics blamed him for Armenia’s catastrophic defeat.
Pashinyan is adamant that the only way for Armenia to prosper is to make peace with its Turkic neighbors while unraveling security ties with Russia. In parallel, Pashinyan is seeking to move closer to Europe and the United States, in the hopes that their support will sway Ankara and Baku. It hasn’t. Turkey has not even fulfilled its pledge to allow third-country nationals to cross in from Armenia, as President Recep Tayyip Erdogan continues to back Azerbaijan’s demands for ever greater concessions from Armenia.
An undeterred Pashinyan has kept at it. On April 19, he announced that Armenia would be handing back four villages in Galstanyan’s native Tavush that fell under Armenian control during the first war against Azerbaijan in the early 1990s. Azerbaijan did not cede a speck of Armenian land that it had occupied in return. The longer Turkey and Azerbaijan hold out, the weaker Pashinyan’s hand will likely grow despite the recent economic uptick that is ironically due in part to booming trade with Russia.
Pashinyan’s move on the four villages became the trigger for Galstanyan’s Tavush for Homeland movement. He started the protests in Tavush itself and then marched on to Yerevan where he drew more than 30,000 protesters on May 30.
“There is a big market in Armenia for an alternative to Pashinyan,” said Eric Hacopian of the liberal think tank CivilNet in Yerevan. For a moment, amid Pashinyan’s weakening poll numbers, it seemed like Galstanyan, with his pledges of restoring national unity and delivering a dignified peace, fit the bill.
But the mood shifted following bloody clashes between police and demonstrators that erupted on June 12 outside the parliament. Hundreds were wounded after police using stun guns blocked their efforts to storm the building. At least 98 people were detained during the protests. Amnesty International has called for an investigation into police violence.
To be credible in Armenia, one has to be “nationalist, very strong on national defense programs, supportive of the Western pivot, particularly toward the EU, and willing to criticize Russia,” Hacopian explained. Galstanyan has suggested that Armenia needs to mend its fraying ties with Russia. He has yet to present a detailed and credible alternative blueprint for government.
It hasn’t helped that leading figures from the old, corrupt regime that was bloodlessly ousted through the Velvet Revolution protests have lined up behind the archbishop in hopes of benefiting from his halo effect, or that pro-state Russian media supported the protests, which have since thinned.
“I doubt that he was set up by the Russians,” Hacopian emphasized.
However, Galstanyan is also, to growing consternation among some fellow clergymen, backed by Catholicos Karekin II, the Kremlin-friendly veteran leader of the Armenian Apostolic Church, prompting critics to label him as another tool used to chip away at the government’s westward turn.
Armen Hovhannisyan, an Armenian historian and a frequent commentator on Armenian media, said that all of his contacts in Canada who met Galstanyan told him that “he is a very good priest, a very good personality, and that nothing bad was ever said about him.”
“But now we see he cannot function as a priest. We see a new type of political figure who is just a radical populist demagogue, who is exploiting some sentiments of people, who is actively anti-Western, and who is supported by the oligarchy and people connected to the former governments of Armenia,” Hovhannisyan told Al-Monitor. “We lost a good cleric and got one more bad politician, and that is very sad.”
Others disagree. Arthur Khachatryan is a member of parliament for the opposition Armenian Revolutionary Federation, the Armenian nationalist and socialist group that is Armenia’s oldest and for decades its most influential globally. Galstanyan, according to Khachatryan, is a very “charismatic leader, a very honest person who speaks sincerely from the depths of his heart.”
“He is smart and well-educated. He is the kind of person Armenians need to rescue their country from the abyss,” Khachatryan told Al-Monitor.
The trouble, the lawmaker noted, is that the archbishop is a political novice who “raised expectations too high and too soon,” but his movement will have “a second breath.”
Galstanyan acknowledged that he and members of his movement are reassessing their strategy and “organizing at a national level.” In the meantime, he is holding smaller meetings outside Saint Anna Church in Yerevan every three to four days and engaging in community outreach in rural Armenia in between.
The following is the full text of the interview, which was lightly edited for clarity.
Al-Monitor: It’s been a while since you had a big rally. The common perception is that your movement is losing steam.
Galstanyan: The real action currently is not on the street. There is a lot that is going on behind closed doors. We are in a period of reformatting, reorganizing, re-strategizing of reassessment. We are in the process of integrating more, trying to involve the entire country instead of the small center of Yerevan. We are organizing at the national level and enhancing our media outreach.
Al-Monitor: So you are not planning more rallies in Yerevan?
Galstanyan: No, not now … it’s also very logical because it’s the summertime and people are away and they want to rest. On June 12, we realized that we are up against a very determined power that would not hesitate to shed blood.
Al-Monitor: Are you referring to police violence?
Galstanyan: I am not solely referring to the police. The police are merely a tool. The head of the government (Nikol Pashinyan) is giving the orders. We have a big responsibility to protect the people. We do not believe in violence or in pursuing our rights through violence. Don’t forget, the core of our movement is not only political. It is also very much of a spiritual and moral movement. We are not just seeking a change in government but a change in values, the existing values that were propagated by this government for various reasons.
Al-Monitor: You have frequently accused the government of encouraging a culture of consumerism that allows the government to do what it wants without public scrutiny.
Galstanyan: No, it’s not just consumerism. It’s the enmity between our people, the polarization of society, the hatred, the moral chaos that we are facing, that has been sown by this government. We are saying that ‘yes we can have different ideas, but we should not hate each other.’ We are a small nation, and we cannot afford to be so deeply divided. That’s why we lost the war in Nagorno-Karabakh. Because the society was not united.
Al-Monitor: Don’t you feel that you might have also been ill-prepared? There is a lot of talk about how the army was poorly managed and equipped and run by corrupt generals lining their own pockets. A lot of talk about how complacent Armenia grew while Azerbaijan furiously armed itself and modernized its army for the past three decades in anticipation of this war.
Galstanyan: It’s just talk. There are a lot of conspiracy theories. But what I have seen in the field is just the incompetence of this government, that they couldn’t properly manage this war.
Al-Monitor: You feel they could have won?
Galstanyan: It’s not only that I felt. I have seen it.
Al-Monitor: Could you be more specific?
Galstanyan: I am not going into the details.
Al-Monitor: The details do matter.
Galstanyan: They established an ad hoc committee in the parliament that was tasked with investigating why [Armenia lost the war]. How many years has it been? Four years. And so far we have heard nothing from them. Not a single report. Zero. Why is it so? The committee consists of government representatives mainly. There are no opposition parties, no third (neutral) parties involved.
Al-Monitor: Is that normal?
Galstanyan: No, it is not. It should have been the opposition that should have investigated.
Al-Monitor: But why isn’t the opposition doing that anyway?
Galstanyan: The opposition has no power, no voice. As I said, the committee is appointed by the prime minister’s cabinet. In the parliament, they (Pashinyan’s ruling Civil Contract party) have the majority, so it became a government committee.
Al-Monitor: So how do we explain the fact that Nikol Pashinyan was reelected in 2020 after Armenia lost the war?
Galstanyan: [Pashinyan] deceived the people. The most obvious proof is what happened in the four villages — Baghanis, Voskepar, Kirants and Berkaber — that were returned unilaterally to Azerbaijan. In 2021, during his election campaign, he came to those villages and what did he say? He said ‘Just elect me, and I will solve all the other problems.’ And the people asked him about the enclaves and other [territory-related] things. He said ‘No, no, there is nothing [on the agenda]. And remember, if I were to ever abandon you, I would cut off my hand.’ So basically he deceived them. This delimitation, demarcation is not mentioned anywhere. Not in the election program. Not in [Pashinyan’s] party program, not in the government’s program.
Al-Monitor: But don’t you believe there needs to be delimitation and demarcation of borders as part of a comprehensive peace treaty with Azerbaijan?
Galstanyan: Not in this opaque way. First of all, Pashinyan hasn’t offered his vision about the future of the country.
Al-Monitor: Isn’t his vision that you need peace with Azerbaijan and Turkey, and that you need to avoid further conflict as a matter of survival?
Galstanyan: In 2021, during his election campaign, he said we will pursue the right of self-determination for Nagorno-Karabakh. It is written in the party program. ‘Separation for liberation.’ He is a serial liar. That is why I’m saying this issue has two layers: moral [and] ethical; the second is legal or political.
Al-Monitor: Why are you trying to force him out of power through street protests rather than letting people decide in parliamentary elections that are due to be held in 2026? Won’t that be less destabilizing and more democratic?
Galstanyan: There is no destabilization. We came out on the streets to protect people’s rights. To say that this entire process is wrong. This is a moral issue. They have to just go. He understands that losing power would be very catastrophic for him.
We risk losing further lands in the southern parts of the country, in Syunik, in Gherard and in the Sevan region. There are other issues in the northern part of the country and the issue of the exclaves. All of this is being conducted in violation of the constitution and of international law. And there are no mediators involved.
Al-Monitor: Aren’t the Americans somehow involved?
Galstanyan: No. They are just cheering everyone on, saying ‘It’s good.’
Al-Monitor: So you believe that everything that is going on is purely between Pashinyan and Aliyev and that the Americans, the Russians aren’t seeing any of the draft peace agreements that are being exchanged?
Galstanyan: No, everyone is seeing the exchanged documents. Everyone is involved. But when the two sides are in agreement, who would intervene and say ‘This is wrong’?
Al-Monitor: So is your concern that there will be an agreement that will pave the way for further territorial concessions, and that is why you want this government to be overthrown?
Galstanyan: It’s not just that element. This government has done the complete opposite of what it’s promised. Our entire movement is about good versus evil.
Al-Monitor: Some people say that there are evil forces supporting you, that some members of the old regime like [former presidents] Serzh Sargsyan, Robert Kocharyan, individuals who are held responsible for where Armenia is today with regard to Nagorno-Karabakh.
Galstanyan: Let’s say even if those past governments or leaders were evil, Pashinyan is the continuation of it.
Al-Monitor: But would you want to be associated with them since you say you are against evil? They are seen as corrupt people who exploited this society.
Galstanyan: This government has been in power for six years. Could you show any single verdict against Sargsyan, Kocharyan or any corrupt person? Not only should they have been held accountable, they should have been in jail based on the accusations against them. The justice system, the police is in Pashinyan’s hands. The national security service, everything is under his control, and it’s been six years.
Al-Monitor: Are you saying you are not associated with or receiving support from Sargsyan, Kocharyan or the Dashnaktsutyun Party?
Galstanyan: Dashnaktsutyn Party. Republican Party. There are lots of other parties. Everyone is involved. As I told you before, when we started this movement, the essence of this movement was about truth, reconciliation and justice. That is totally lacking in our society at large. During this entire process, there have been lots of people, organizations, parties who got involved [in our movement]. What I have been trying to do is to open the doors for everyone. During a transition period under our government of reconciliation, we will do a political assessment of the last 30 years, as was done in the Republic of South Africa.
Al-Monitor: But unlike in South Africa when it was under apartheid, there is no violence between the people here.
Galstanyan: My dear friend, it’s worse than violence. Because these people used to live together. Now, when three people come together, none trusts the other.
Al-Monitor: If you were to come to power, would you hold individuals such as Sargsyan, Kocharyan or any of their associates accountable for any crimes they may have committed?
Galstanyan: If they committed crimes, they will have to pay.
Al-Monitor: Do you believe that they did?
Galstanyan: Crimes in what sense?
Al-Monitor: Were they corrupt and did they mismanage this country?
Galstanyan: Yes, they mismanaged [the country] of course. But have they been proven to be corrupt in the court of law? Pashinyan controls everything. He has all the means to have a fair and just trial. Look, Robert Kocharyan has been acquitted, Serzh Sargsyan has been acquitted. There are lots of other people we know about. Nothing is happening to anyone. Why?
Al-Monitor: Why?
Galstanyan: Well, maybe those are false accusations and perceptions. Maybe he (Pashinyan) made them all up when he was a yellow, yellow journalist.
Al-Monitor: Moving on to foreign policy …
Galstanyan: Look, I am not avoiding your question. I am saying I can have a personal opinion but not pass [legal] judgement.
Al-Monitor: Then what’s your personal opinion?
Galstanyan: It’s my personal opinion. During these 30 years, I have been in opposition against the system, not only against Kocharyan and Sargsyan, but against [post-Soviet Armenia’s first President] Levon Ter-Petrosyan.
Al-Monitor: Isn’t that unusual, for a man of the cloth to be involved in such temporal affairs?
Galstanyan: I have not been in any political movement, but I raised my voice, and also, when I was a young man, I was very much involved in the liberation movement of Armenia from 1988 up to 1994. I have lost lots of friends. So there is a huge responsibility on us. This is a very personal matter. It’s not only a national issue.
Al-Monitor: Thus, you too believe there needs to be peace with Turkey and Azerbaijan?
Galstanyan: No single rational person can be against peace. But there needs to be peace with dignity. There needs to be a just peace. Instead, Azerbaijan is pressuring and saying something, dictating something, and Armenia is doing it. We have to reestablish a normal negotiation process.
Al-Monitor: Isn’t the fact that you don’t have any powerful allies part of the problem? You blame Pashinyan for many things, but wouldn’t you say that Russia also failed to live up to its commitments as a guarantor, as a peacekeeper?
Galstanyan: No one has failed. Every big power has their interests and their agendas. It is up to you how you manage them.
Al-Monitor: You think Pashinyan mismanaged the relationship with Russia?
Galstanyan: What Pashinyan has done is that he has brought this whole geopolitical [battle between regional powers] to Armenia. What is currently happening in Armenia is unimaginable. Russians are on one side. Western powers are on the other. Iran is in a different position.
Al-Monitor: You have suggested that Armenia ought to fix its relations with Russia.
Galstanyan: No, what I am saying is we have to look at our nationalist interests. We have to put aside these ‘anti’ policies. What this government is doing is all about being ‘anti’ this and ‘anti’ that. Anti-Russian, anti-Iran … let us say there are [even] times they are against Western powers. And what are they doing, the Western powers? They don’t care about Armenia or Armenian interests. Nothing. Their priority is to throw Russia out of Armenia — out of the region, actually.
Al-Monitor: Do you think that’s Pashinyan’s priority as well?
Galstanyan: I wouldn’t say it is his priority. He brought this fight into Armenia. He could have just stopped it instead of turning Armenia into a battlefield. One day, we can face the fate of Ukraine. It could happen at any moment.
Al-Monitor: Are you saying that if Russia feels provoked enough, it could react more forcefully?
Galstanyan: I am saying ‘maybe.’ Armenia is a small country. Let’s say Russia feels it has no other option than to provoke war through Azerbaijan … Azerbaijan is ready to do anything.
Al-Monitor: Is that what you are suggesting happened in 2020? That Russia pushed Azerbaijan into the war?
Galstanyan: No. I don’t think that’s what happened. Those are weak people who believe that. Because we don’t take responsibility, because we don’t consider that we are the ones who are the axis of everything. If we fail in foreign relations, it’s our failure. If we failed in the war, it’s our failure. You can’t accuse others. That’s the policy of this government. They haven’t taken any responsibility for any of their own actions.
Al-Monitor: Pashinyan went before the parliament recently and admitted he may have been wrong [to say Nagorno-Karabakh is part of Armenia].
Galstanyan: ‘I was wrong’? He has to resign. He is dealing with the fate of the nation. You are the reason that 5,000 soldiers were killed.
Al-Monitor: How would you pull Armenia out of this hole? Many people tend to think that you are not proposing anything radically different from Pashinyan, that you don’t present a real alternative.
Galstanyan: I haven’t promised anything to anyone. The first thing would be to implement the agenda of reconciliation; the second would be to pause all these processes in the foreign field. To give the country a rest. In the meantime, you organize your internal life, your army. You mobilize your people; go resume from a position of strength. You don’t just look on helplessly.
Al-Monitor: Do you know Pashinyan personally?
Galstanyan: I met him in 2018. First I thought he was a very honest people person. And then he became evil’s agent.
Al-Monitor: As a spiritual man, as an archbishop, you speak of healing wounds, of uniting people. But it’s very personal the way you describe Pashinyan, like this Satan figure. How does that sit with your faith?
Galstanyan: The core of our religion is that we have to hold the hand of those who are evil.
Al-Monitor: Then the first step is to meet with him?
Galstanyan: That’s what I am proposing to him. Look, my dear friend, when he first came to our region, Voskepar, to talk to the people, for no reason actually, it was another manipulation. [He was] putting the full responsibility on the shoulders of the peasants. He’s changing the entire structure of the country, the borders, everything. He then goes to the people and tells them ‘You have to agree or disagree with everything’ — the same people he promised not to abandon. He is coming and talking to the villagers and not to the population of Armenia about a matter that affects the entire country. So when he came to Voskepar, they never told us he was coming. Never invited me or anyone else to meet and to talk. It was in March. His first visit.
Al-Monitor: So when did you last meet him?
Galstanyan: Before the war. It was in 2020. Recently, I asked publicly to meet with him. They are avoiding meeting me. We wanted to meet with the foreign minister, the interior minister and the human rights ombudsman. They refused. Even the human rights ombudsman refused.